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BITCOIN

NotoriousREV said...

I reckon there'll be a lot of profit taking at $20k so there'll be a price drop. Good time to short.

Is it possible that the 1BTC p/week sell limit on exchanges will artificially support pricing...

JL said...

carlos said...

JL said...

The people who think Bitcoin and other cryptos will suddenly be worth nothing remind of Brexiters. They never give any reasons, seem to be acting on nothing more than a hunch and anyway have apparently already clearly made their points earlier in the thread and don't need to again :lol:

Because it's a house of cards, an elaborate pyramid scheme which will fall apart when people stop getting on the band wagon. As a medium of exchange it was pretty much only used by criminals and given the fluctuations in value it's not even fit for an underworld currency.

Once the frenzy to get in stops the arse will fall out of it.

I believe it has no value.

Now you tell us why you think a made up token in the interweb is worth £20000 other than because someone else on the interweb told you so :P

No, I'll need some substantiation for your points first, thanks :lol:

A lot of people are saying the same thing - pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, only used by criminals etc - but it would be nice to see some hard evidence.

edit - my answer is probably going to sound evasive so here's what I actually think. It could be the future of currency - it could all go down the U-bend. My mind is open to the possibilities of it and I think it would have fallen apart by now if it was such a fragile concept. But again - my mind is open. I don't know why people have such intransigent, strong opinions about it, but then I don't understand people that well tbh.

im struggling to see how it could ever work as a currency, it seems a great investment whilst it's the latest thing, but as soon as people start selling, there's nothing there to back it up.

My main issue with it is that it's just a monumental waste of energy. Burning countless amounts of real earth resources to simply say you've burned them. It's pretty disgusting when you think about it. I still might jump on the bandwagon though out of sheer greed.

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Cheers

Rich

It's a shame you don't earn coins for doing something more useful, like processing actual data, at least then it wouldn't be so wasteful. The idea of blockchain for as a public record of transactions is also a good idea. I think that ultimately there'll definitely be a future for something similar to bitcoin but not in its current form.

As for my earlier post, I don't think it'll collapse at $20k, just that there'll be a temporary dip as people try to cash out at a nice round number.

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Discoc*nts

1st and 3rd places FECPOTY Shed of the Year 2016

The waste of energy really sticks in my throat, I must admit.

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It feels like that. Like a donkey. On a skateboard.

NotoriousREV said...

The idea of blockchain for as a public record of transactions is also a good idea. I think that ultimately there'll definitely be a future for something similar to bitcoin but not in its current form.


There's a massive push on this at work, all around changing entire business value chains. One not insignificant challenge imo is getting the various organisations to work together to get the thing going.

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Because V8

JL said...

The waste of energy really sticks in my throat, I must admit.

This.

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"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Si_ said...

JL said...

The waste of energy really sticks in my throat, I must admit.

This.

Thing is, what constitutes a valid use of energy?
Powering the evo forum?
PlayStations?
TV?
Xmas lights?

--

"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Yep, there's a bloody enormous amount of power consumed to process transactions for "real" currencies. Would be interesting to add up typical power used to process a card transaction for comparison.

The people mining bitcoin (semi) profitably these days are on massively more efficient ASIC-based mining hardware, lots of these sorts of calculations assume 2014-era kit.

I agree the energy usage to "mine" these coins is crazy.. but surely that's the point of any currency. Money is, is an exchange of effort. If gold/diamonds were easy to mine then they would have no value.

Updated December 17, 2017 at 11:51 PM

JL said...

carlos said...

JL said...

The people who think Bitcoin and other cryptos will suddenly be worth nothing remind of Brexiters. They never give any reasons, seem to be acting on nothing more than a hunch and anyway have apparently already clearly made their points earlier in the thread and don't need to again :lol:

Because it's a house of cards, an elaborate pyramid scheme which will fall apart when people stop getting on the band wagon. As a medium of exchange it was pretty much only used by criminals and given the fluctuations in value it's not even fit for an underworld currency.

Once the frenzy to get in stops the arse will fall out of it.

I believe it has no value.

Now you tell us why you think a made up token in the interweb is worth £20000 other than because someone else on the interweb told you so :P

No, I'll need some substantiation for your points first, thanks :lol:

A lot of people are saying the same thing - pyramid scheme, Ponzi scheme, only used by criminals etc - but it would be nice to see some hard evidence.

edit - my answer is probably going to sound evasive so here's what I actually think. It could be the future of currency - it could all go down the U-bend. My mind is open to the possibilities of it and I think it would have fallen apart by now if it was such a fragile concept. But again - my mind is open. I don't know why people have such intransigent, strong opinions about it, but then I don't understand people that well tbh.

I guess it's the potential for it to be another dot-com bubble, or Dutch tulip mania.

History has a habit of repeating itself, just in different ways.

I get that Marv :lol: - and yes it's a possibility, but people seem to have staked out their territory before doing any actual research. A buddy of mine absolutely relishes sending me any clip he can find about how it's going to bring about the end of the world, for example.

It's very annoying, especially as once you move past the clickbait title each clip normally calms down a bit to say look no-one really knows, just be careful yeah?

It's like people saying my next flight could crash - yes, it might, but what's your evidence? It also might not!

I'm not a flag-waving fan of crypto by any means but it's next-gen tech that deserves a bit of analysis before it's written off. Whether or not people choose to invest in it is an entirely different matter, and none of my business.

Updated December 18, 2017 at 5:05 AM

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It feels like that. Like a donkey. On a skateboard.

simongardner said...

Yep, there's a bloody enormous amount of power consumed to process transactions for "real" currencies. Would be interesting to add up typical power used to process a card transaction for comparison.

The people mining bitcoin (semi) profitably these days are on massively more efficient ASIC-based mining hardware, lots of these sorts of calculations assume 2014-era kit.

Several tens of orders of magnitude greater for Bitcoin than CC transactions. 250 KwH per transaction, apparently.

If this is even remotely right for energy consumption, it should be immediately killed.

32 Twh

Uses more power per year than Denmark - there's absolutely zero justification for that.

It's tulips all over again. At least the tulips looked pretty, this just contributes to global warming.

JL said...

I'm not a flag-waving fan of crypto by any means but it's next-gen tech that deserves a bit of analysis before it's written off. Whether or not people choose to invest in it is an entirely different matter, and none of my business.

I remember in '97 when people were saying this Internet malarkey was just a fad and it's time in the sun would be short lived

exiges said...

JL said...

I'm not a flag-waving fan of crypto by any means but it's next-gen tech that deserves a bit of analysis before it's written off. Whether or not people choose to invest in it is an entirely different matter, and none of my business.

I remember in '97 when people were saying this Internet malarkey was just a fad and it's time in the sun would be short lived

That's exactly what I compare the uninformed naysayers to. However, as is more and more frequent these days, I'm just going to give up on them instead.

Again - I'm not fiercely pro- or anti-, but I want to keep an open mind and come to an intelligent decision. I realise I might be typing too fast for the majority of people :lol:

Probably time for me to put this thread down for a bit :lol:

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It feels like that. Like a donkey. On a skateboard.

From the article someone just linked:

If Bitcoin's price doubles to $25000, we can expect the Bitcoin network's energy consumption to roughly double as well

That's the bit I struggle with. I believe BTC without flaws would have the potential to go to 100k+ per coin, easily. But power demands are roughly proportional to value (if a coin is worth more, people are happy to spend a lot more electricity to mine one).

The network already takes a huge amount of power, allegedly that of a small country. If it were to reach 100k, that'd be 5 small countries...

I don't understand it and think its all a bit strange and scammy.

In the chance you all get rich though think about your poor mechanic forumite and his desire for a 512TR, don't leave him out in the cold :(

Dave!

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I came here to drink milk and kick ass..... and i've just finished my milk!!!!

exiges said...

JL said...

I'm not a flag-waving fan of crypto by any means but it's next-gen tech that deserves a bit of analysis before it's written off. Whether or not people choose to invest in it is an entirely different matter, and none of my business.

I remember in '97 when people were saying this Internet malarkey was just a fad and it's time in the sun would be short lived

Remember the dot com bubble before it settled down? Boo.com springs to mind.

Just looking at the casualties of the Dot-com crash, Cisco's stock plunged 86%. It recovered but plenty of businesses didn't. It's not obvious who the winners will be at this stage; but unlike the internet as a whole, cryptocurrencies don't necessarily have any innate purpose.

Updated December 18, 2017 at 9:43 AM

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Wow was I impressed

Some perspective of the energy consumption

we've had loads of people asking us to accept BTC as a payment option. Yeah, like we're going to price our products in a massively volatile currency :roll:

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Discoc*nts

1st and 3rd places FECPOTY Shed of the Year 2016

This Wired.co.uk article is a week old, so probably already out of date (well, it definitely is as to prices).

But interesting, anyway. The conclusion being that investors now are sheep who think they're cleverer than some other sheep.

Updated December 18, 2017 at 1:56 PM

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Wow was I impressed

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