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BITCOIN

_Mick_N said...

Is it only me who hasn't got a f**king clue what they are on about ?

I understand most of the technical stuff and even I don't get why the interest in them.

I understand the theory, I just don't get calling it a currency. It sounds more like a commodity to me.

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Cheers

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I only continue to post in these threads so that you don't all think I've had a hissy fit about the price going down after I tried to get you all to buy it a couple of months ago.

If anything this recent bit of bad news just shows me how resilient it is. If that amount of negative publicity couldn't kill it (it's climbed back up from $400ish yesterday to $560 today) then I see that as a good thing.

I can't say I understand this either, the whole thing seems to be supported by Brave New World types who bang on about it being a threat to Fiat money, and speculators who see a quick buck either through mining a few and/or riping off the gullible. It seems that there's a lack of liquidity in the market too, if I had $10m of BitCoins, how easy would it be to get them exchanged for proper money? Not very I suspect.

It's all got the feeling of a bubble market, if you're still into this I'd say now was a good time to jump ship (if possible), and I've been seeing adverts for BitCoin mining apparatus for a while now - the great unwashed are piling in...

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mattcambs said...

Stupid question, but if a bitcoin is worth $700, for example's sake, I assume there is the equivalent of a bit-cent - worth $7? Would make buying a pizza easier, or do Dominos just give you $680 change is USD?

No from what recall him saying the bitcoin was the lowest common denominator. So he'd have to buy $1k worth of pizzas or except no change.

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ShockDiamonds said...

mattcambs said...

Stupid question, but if a bitcoin is worth $700, for example's sake, I assume there is the equivalent of a bit-cent - worth $7? Would make buying a pizza easier, or do Dominos just give you $680 change is USD?

No from what recall him saying the bitcoin was the lowest common denominator. So he'd have to buy $1k worth of pizzas or except no change.

The sub-unit of the Bitcoin it the Satoshi. There are 100000000 Satoshis to 1 BTC.

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Actually one other point of interest on this which I meant to mention earlier. He had a visit by the police, who had been informed of his excessive power consumption by the energy company. The server uses a lot of juice by all accounts.

Transpires that the energy companies inform the old bill of such things, just in case there's a suggestion of dodgy plants growing under rows of bulbs in the attic or something. Yeah I know sounds ridiculous but the guy is genuine and that's what the police told him.

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ShockDiamonds said...

No from what recall him saying the bitcoin was the lowest common denominator. So he'd have to buy $1k worth of pizzas or except no change.

Well he was wrong, or more likely you misheard/misunderstood what he said.

ShockDiamonds said...

Transpires that the energy companies inform the old bill of such things, just in case there's a suggestion of dodgy plants growing under rows of bulbs in the attic or something. Yeah I know sounds ridiculous but the guy is genuine and that's what the police told him.

Doesn't sound ridiculous at all, heard it many times before.

_ said...

ShockDiamonds said...

No from what recall him saying the bitcoin was the lowest common denominator. So he'd have to buy $1k worth of pizzas or except no change.

Well he was wrong, or more likely you misheard/misunderstood what he said.

Yeah the latter I think given Rev's post too. Perhaps it was specifically in relation to the Dominos thing. Because we had a hard time accepting the fact you could pay for pizzas with Bitcoin tbh.

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_ said...

ShockDiamonds said...

Transpires that the energy companies inform the old bill of such things, just in case there's a suggestion of dodgy plants growing under rows of bulbs in the attic or something. Yeah I know sounds ridiculous but the guy is genuine and that's what the police told him.

Doesn't sound ridiculous at all, heard it many times before.

This will tho... :)

He also mentioned that at the beginning, they were selling the coins as soon as they were mined (ie, the keys or whatever were identified). And made a few quid. And basically, just kept on doing that.

Then at some point they took stock when the price went above $1k per coin and established that the total value of the coins mined to date was around $40 million :shock:

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_ said...

As for mining, you need to already own the equipment for it to be financially viable now really, and even then you barely break even on the electricity cost. And your equipment will die sooner than if you weren't smashing it at 100% 24/7.

Check out this graph:

https://blockchain.info/charts/difficulty

The difficulty of mining one bitcoin has pretty much doubled in the last month alone, and as you can see the rate of difficulty increase is exponential...

There's only ever going to be 21 million bitcoins. There's already 12 million or so in circulation, and the difficulty of finding new ones is engineered to make sure that we're still unearthing them decades from now.

The difficulty increases to ensure the mining rate stays the same as the compute power goes up. This has driven an arms race in hardware. GPUs are no longer profitable, you need an ASIC. As ASIC power increases you have a window of a few weeks where the latest and greatest ASIC is profitable before the general mining pool catches up with that power. It's interesting stuff.

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NotoriousREV said...

_ said...

As for mining, you need to already own the equipment for it to be financially viable now really, and even then you barely break even on the electricity cost. And your equipment will die sooner than if you weren't smashing it at 100% 24/7.

Check out this graph:

https://blockchain.info/charts/difficulty

The difficulty of mining one bitcoin has pretty much doubled in the last month alone, and as you can see the rate of difficulty increase is exponential...

There's only ever going to be 21 million bitcoins. There's already 12 million or so in circulation, and the difficulty of finding new ones is engineered to make sure that we're still unearthing them decades from now.

The difficulty increases to ensure the mining rate stays the same as the compute power goes up. This has driven an arms race in hardware. GPUs are no longer profitable, you need an ASIC. As ASIC power increases you have a window of a few weeks where the latest and greatest ASIC is profitable before the general mining pool catches up with that power. It's interesting stuff.

This. Very interesting stuff.

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ShockDiamonds said...

_ said...

ShockDiamonds said...

Transpires that the energy companies inform the old bill of such things, just in case there's a suggestion of dodgy plants growing under rows of bulbs in the attic or something. Yeah I know sounds ridiculous but the guy is genuine and that's what the police told him.

Doesn't sound ridiculous at all, heard it many times before.

This will tho... :)

He also mentioned that at the beginning, they were selling the coins as soon as they were mined (ie, the keys or whatever were identified). And made a few quid. And basically, just kept on doing that.

Then at some point they took stock when the price went above $1k per coin and established that the total value of the coins mined to date was around $40 million :shock:

at 2 a week, that means they've been at at for about 350 years?!

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Cheers

Rich

Rich B said...

ShockDiamonds said...

_ said...

ShockDiamonds said...

Transpires that the energy companies inform the old bill of such things, just in case there's a suggestion of dodgy plants growing under rows of bulbs in the attic or something. Yeah I know sounds ridiculous but the guy is genuine and that's what the police told him.

Doesn't sound ridiculous at all, heard it many times before.

This will tho... :)

He also mentioned that at the beginning, they were selling the coins as soon as they were mined (ie, the keys or whatever were identified). And made a few quid. And basically, just kept on doing that.

Then at some point they took stock when the price went above $1k per coin and established that the total value of the coins mined to date was around $40 million :shock:

at 2 a week, that means they've been at at for about 350 years?!


No they were mining several dozen or more per week to start with. Don't forget there are 20 or 21 million or something so at the start they are easier to 'mine' aka identify.

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What I think is a missed opportunity, is that mining them doesn't "do" anything useful. And it uses a metric fuckton of energy.

It'd be nice if the whole thing had been coded in such a way that all of that computing power was doing something useful at the same time. Bending proteins and running simulations to find a cure for cancer, that sort of thing.

I can see problems with implementing that idea, but I'm sure with a bit of cleverness it could have been viable.

_ said...

What I think is a missed opportunity, is that mining them doesn't "do" anything useful. And it uses a metric fuckton of energy.

It'd be nice if the whole thing had been coded in such a way that all of that computing power was doing something useful at the same time. Bending proteins and running simulations to find a cure for cancer, that sort of thing.

I can see problems with implementing that idea, but I'm sure with a bit of cleverness it could have been viable.

So much this. At a time we're all being told to cut back on our energy consumption, some genius comes up with an idea that consumes billions of dollars worth (must be, if it "barely breaks even") of extra power to produce, er, nothing.

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Nothing? Mine a few, sell 'em, check your bank balance. Not saying it's easy, but you may as well call the stock market nothing as it largely exists only electronically doesn't it?

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David_Yu said...

_ said...

What I think is a missed opportunity, is that mining them doesn't "do" anything useful. And it uses a metric fuckton of energy.

It'd be nice if the whole thing had been coded in such a way that all of that computing power was doing something useful at the same time. Bending proteins and running simulations to find a cure for cancer, that sort of thing.

I can see problems with implementing that idea, but I'm sure with a bit of cleverness it could have been viable.

So much this. At a time we're all being told to cut back on our energy consumption, some genius comes up with an idea that consumes billions of dollars worth (must be, if it "barely breaks even") of extra power to produce, er, nothing.

this.

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Cheers

Rich

ShockDiamonds said...

Nothing? Mine a few, sell 'em, check your bank balance. Not saying it's easy, but you may as well call the stock market nothing as it largely exists only electronically doesn't it?

No. The stock market is dealing with the buying and selling of shares in companies that have tangible assets.

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