Forums > General > The Hales/ Piper case

THE HALES/ PIPER CASE
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Not good for Hales or motoring journalism where writers want to drive cars they don't own..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/classiccars/9808987/You-bend-it-you-mend-it-motoring-journalist-sued-after-1.25m-porsche-engine-explodes.html

:(

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The Evo forum really is a shadow of its former self. I remember when the internet was for the elite and now they seem to let any spastic on.

IaFG Supercharged Muppet Division

I would've thought Gales would've had some sort of comprehensive insurance cover to cover such eventualities...

He did. His ltd co had full PI over that would have paid out, but Piper is suing him personally.

Whole thing stinks rather.

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Tim

Toyota. Flat Cap. Grey Slacks. Slipons. Slower than everyone.

Interesting.

Mark Hales was dep ed for Fast Lane in the 80's. really enjoyed his writing.

He's been competing and delivering perfomance/advanced driving training "for ever" - have always wanted to get some tuition from him personally (but he aint cheap).

He drove my S2 Sport 190. 8)

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Tim

Toyota. Flat Cap. Grey Slacks. Slipons. Slower than everyone.

All sounds in very bad taste. It isn't like Hales is some part-timer. Why give him the car in the fist place if he didn't trust him with it? Idiot.

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BMW Car Magazine @QuentlyBentin

I'm disappointed. I thought this thread was going to be about Tim Hale's hearing about him stalking Billy Piper :(

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Cheers,

Gwaredd

steelesigns.co.uk

I can't believe that someone with as much experience as Hales is the sort of person to over-rev someone else's classic racing car.

Very sad. Mark is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet. He gave me and Pug p-rides in Nick Mason's McLaren F1 GTR at Brands years ago.
He's also helped evo with stories over the years.

Don't understand why Piper the multi-millionaire seems to be actively seeking to bankrupt the (as ever) lowly paid journo.

As said, if he'd sued Mark's company, his liability insurance would probably have paid out without him risking his house?

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JL said...

I can't believe that someone with as much experience as Hales is the sort of person to over-rev someone else's classic racing car.

It seems that Hales does not disagree the engine was buzzed, but that it was on an up-shift and because there was a pre-existing fault with the gearbox that caused it to jump out of gear, rather than his negligence.

There's quite a long detailed post on PH about it by someone who was actually in court with them.

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Tim

Toyota. Flat Cap. Grey Slacks. Slipons. Slower than everyone.

That's pretty much what I was saying Tim. Do you have a link to the PH thread? I would look but PH gives me cancer.

Updated January 21, 2013 at 11:59 AM

Post by Stacy here at 13:48 yesterday. "It's always difficult to know whether to chime in or stay silent on these threads..."

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Tim

Toyota. Flat Cap. Grey Slacks. Slipons. Slower than everyone.

8,200rpm on a racing flat-12 doesn't sound like it should kill an engine.

I feel for Mark Hales. Hope that somebody (Nick Mason?) stumps up some cash to help him appeal what seems to be a one-sided judgment.

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JL said...

Oh b*llocks you're right

Jobbo said...

8,200rpm on a racing flat-12 doesn't sound like it should kill an engine.

Read further into that PH thread. Those engines were notoriously fickle about very few additional revs and regularly exploded back-in-the-day for this reason.

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Tim

Toyota. Flat Cap. Grey Slacks. Slipons. Slower than everyone.

Thanks Tim, interesting stuff, and actually a fairly well-balanced discussion in comparison to the normal self-satisfied arse gravy those braying shitmunchers normally spew forth.

Tim said...

Jobbo said...

8,200rpm on a racing flat-12 doesn't sound like it should kill an engine.

Read further into that PH thread. Those engines were notoriously fickle about very few additional revs and regularly exploded back-in-the-day for this reason.

It does, but it also says 8,200 was below the point that peak power was made, so shouldn't have been catastrophic anyway.

Tim said...

Jobbo said...

8,200rpm on a racing flat-12 doesn't sound like it should kill an engine.

Read further into that PH thread. Those engines were notoriously fickle about very few additional revs and regularly exploded back-in-the-day for this reason.

I've read the whole thread; last night in fact. Found the quote again, which refers to 9200rpm killing them rather than 8200:

These cars were known to be rev-critical in period. Plenty were blown up in period by the best drivers around at the time. It went - 8400rpm: max power (between 580 and 630bhp), max revs 8700-8,800: 9,200rpm shrapnel.

From John Wyer's book 'The Certain Sound' : "The rev limiters were usually set at this speed (8,800rpm) but were not completely reliable and if the drivers missed a gear it did not act quickly enough to prevent damage. The trouble was that at 9,200rpm the valves touched the pistons which almost invariably resulted in a broken camshaft and a blown engine. We lost several engines as a result".

Also "[Hobbs] had the misfortune at Daytona to miss a gear and wreck and engine, a fatally easy thing to do on the 917" and "Being Siffert he had to make a grandstand play and pass them in front of the pits. In doing so he missed a gear and blew the engine".

By having it rebuilt I suspect it may actually be better and less prone to spontaneously breaking than it was.

Updated January 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM

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JL said...

Oh b*llocks you're right

I've met Mark Hales on a few occasions, he reviewed my TT260 back in the day for Evo and C+C magazine. He always struck me as a really decent bloke, unlike the inflated ego types that you get with racers. Softly spoken, very considered in what he says.

I guess we'll never know what really happened, but it'd surprise me if Mark didn't listen to an owners advice when driving a car.

Updated January 21, 2013 at 12:34 PM

I was just about to say 'thats stacy vickers isn't it' but someone already confirmed that a few posts down.

Somehow I still get my free issues of trackdriver magazine after being an early (free) subscriber, where both stacy and mark hales write.

I've enjoyed hales' writing for twenty odd years, its quite a sad story this.

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Done.

Quote Daily Telegraph
"David Piper allowed Mark Hales, an experienced racing driver and freelance writer, to take his treasured Porsche 917 for a spin on a test track for a magazine article."

Obviously not so treasured, as the article goes on to say that the car was sold last July.

Was the car only allowed to be driven so that it would have a magazine article written about it, adding a bit extra free pre-sale publicity ? If so David Piper should pay for his failed PR exercise and drop the case.

Updated January 21, 2013 at 12:56 PM

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