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QUOTED POWER FIGURES?
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Looking at the massive off topic tangent on the Cayman R thread I was surprised and mildly shocked that the BRZ power, which is meant to be 197 or thereabouts is effectively 140!! :shock:

I seem to recall that most TT RS and Focus ST made more than quoted but is this normal in the car industry?

Does my car actually have 250 horses then or is it a dirty lie? :(

Dirty lie, happened since the dawn of time.

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What's the difference between a BMW and a hedgehog?

The good news is it doesn't really matter - finding out your car is 50 bhp down won't make it suddenly any slower :D

Daddydadbo said...

I was surprised and mildly shocked that the BRZ power, which is meant to be 197 or thereabouts is effectively 140!! :shock:

At the wheels remember. All drivetrains soak up a pretty big slice of the engine power.

The questions obviously centre around the fact that a 197bhp rwd config should make more than this figure.

Maybe Subaru just dyno'd the car and accidentally applied their normal 4WD correction factor? ;)

Updated November 14, 2012 at 8:04 AM

For some reason the GT86 has been compared many times on US sites to the Golf GTI, which apparently makes ~250bhp which is why it's so much quicker than the GT86 which according to their same dynos make the quoted 200bhp. Evo dyno tested the GTI a few years ago and it did put out better figures than quoted, but not that much better. It has always over-performed though.

Plenty of German cars which are quoted as being dead on an insurance cut-off point (193bhp, 231bhp, 286bhp etc - round numbers in kW) seem to make a bit more than the manufacturers' figures.

Wasn't the M3 Evo one of the rare cases where it regularly didn't make the 321bhp (or whatever) it was supposed to have?

Carl.

968 rarely make the 240BHP quoted. More like 220-230BHP.

911s usually make more power than quoted. The engine in the 993 Carrera has supposed to be close to 300BHP.

Oh and Diesel Golfs usually produce more power than quoted.

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Yes, yes, yes, I'm doing that all the time. You don't have to remind me every 10 seconds.

Marv said...

911s usually make more power than quoted. The engine in the 993 Carrera has supposed to be close to 300BHP.

Is that the Varioram version?

All Pumas were rumoured to make close to 200bhp iirc. :D

Marv said...

968 rarely make the 240BHP quoted. More like 220-230BHP.

They're an old car now, though ;)

Legend has it that Toyota sandbagged the Mk3 MR2 figures to protect Celica sales. I don't understand massively overstating the GT86 figures, though. Especially if they plan a higher-powered model. Surely they'll get found out?

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Knackered old hairdresser's sh1tter

Dr Carlos said...

Wasn't the M3 Evo one of the rare cases where it regularly didn't make the 321bhp (or whatever) it was supposed to have?

Carl.

I think that was true in some cases, but I also remember reading that the point at which it makes its 321 bhp (i.e 7.4k, aka the redline itself) doesn't suit coast-down tests or something. Can someone who knows what they're on about add to this?

Si_ said...

Marv said...

968 rarely make the 240BHP quoted. More like 220-230BHP.

They're an old car now, though ;)

Legend has it that Toyota sandbagged the Mk3 MR2 figures to protect Celica sales. I don't understand massively overstating the GT86 figures, though. Especially if they plan a higher-powered model. Surely they'll get found out?

Really? Never heard that. Every 1ZZ I've seen dyno'd, whether in a Celica or Roadster has been pretty much bang on the money, sometimes 1-2 bhp down with wear.

Would like to have the Z dyno'd, but they are really hard on an engine and I have too much mechanical sympathy these days.

It was 0-60 times, not bhp, thinking about it.

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Knackered old hairdresser's sh1tter

Are they hard on an engine Jon? They're not under massive load.

Makes more sense, given UK MR2's had a slippy diff, and the Celica didn't. Although when TG did the new vs. old test (mk1 vs mk3 MR2) they had to run the test a few times before they could get the mk3 to win and 'prove' the point :lol:

JL said...

Are they hard on an engine Jon? They're not under massive load.

IME it's an airflow thing, the comically large fans they use are never replicate doing 100 mph+ assuming the usual 4th gear to redline run. I had one engine suffer damage in a mapping session though, granted, that was multiple runs rather than a one-off.

The coast down tests are a wild stab in the dark to guestimate the transmission losses, but it is totally and utterly a computer guestimated figure and should be taken with the proverbial handful of salt.

The only way to get an accurate calculated transmission loss is to measure the power at the wheels, take the engine out of the car and then measure the flywheel figure and subtract one from the other.

Computer calculated flywheel figures will actually vary wildly from one make of dyno to another, due to the way that the particular make of rolling road in question guestimates the transmission loss. However, the at wheel power "should" be very similar (if the dynos are properly calibrated).

So unless the you're using the same make of rolling road (and set to the same mode) each time, power comparison figures from one to the other are completely and utterly pointless. You get a lot of this in the Cossie world, where people complain that their car made x-amount more (calculated flywheel) power on x-rolling road compared to y-rolling road. The car hasn't physically lost/gained any power at all, it has just been calculated differently (which people find hard to understand) LOL.

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Nordschleife - there's only two barriers to worry about - the ones on the left and the ones on the right!

Mike Rainbird said...

(which people CHOOSE TO find hard to "understand") LOL.

EFA.

Updated November 14, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Just Jon Innit said...

Makes more sense, given UK MR2's had a slippy diff, and the Celica didn't. Although when TG did the new vs. old test (mk1 vs mk3 MR2) they had to run the test a few times before they could get the mk3 to win and 'prove' the point :lol:

It's also RWD, which will make a more significant difference.

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Cheers,
Mike

Even in a mid-engined car?

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