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WOULD I REGRET GETTING A DSG?
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The other day I took a test drive in a Skoda Fabia vRS, having already had a go in the Renault Clio 200 Cup, Hyundai Veloster Turbo and Subaru BRZ respectively. What surprised me? It wasn’t just fun for an automatic; it was fun, period.  For the record, the Hyundai got points for effort, not so much on the execution. Also, no, you cannot buy a manual VW Golf GTI in Australia anymore.
 
While the manuals were great, there was a certain puerile satisfaction clicking up through the gears without lifting off, which wasn’t hurt by the Skoda actually being a pretty decent car to drive and also very keenly priced. But I kept thinking I’d regret the decision later, particularly as I’d feel like I’d be some sort of traitor to the cause… whatever cause that is.
 
Has anyone here taken the plunge and gone for a ‘flappy paddle’ gearbox over a manual and not wanted to switch back a few months or years later?

I bought a Golf GTi Mk V with DSG and once the novelty wore off I wished I'd got a manuel. When it came to the M3 I decided to go with DSG again as I felt it suited the car better, and never regretted it.

So for me it depends on the car, and unfortunately a few goes don't give you a true day to day ownership experience.

i have been using duel clutch for about 6 years now

it depends how you use your car

for a do anything road car its superb, especially if like me you spend a lot of time in traffic / commuting

WOT gear changes even when cornering is nice, it noticeably makes the car faster point to point

for a weekend plaything / track toy i would still prefer a manual

Updated November 14, 2012 at 5:22 AM

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Making pancake mix on your mums pancake tits

WIBBLE

I've got it in my A3, and to echo what Eric said, I use it for commuting, and it's perfectly fine. I have had a manual hire car for the past 2 days, and I think sitting in traffic etc, I'd continue to stick with the Auto / DSG.

Are these second hand cars or new you're looking at? If new, can you not ask for an extended hire? Pretty sure some places let you do that. See how you get on with it over a weekend for example..?

Early ones are pretty cheap now, and look like an appealing commuter option. Better economy than a "proper" auto.

I';m just put off by Jobson voicing his concerns about durability...

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Knackered old hairdresser's sh1tter

Have had exactly that car for a little over 10 months and 15k miles. DSG (without the extra cost or rarity factor of it being an option) was a huge part of the appeal, but then I spend almost all of my time either in London traffic or on motorways and DCs.

No regrets at all about not buying a manual - it's effortlessly easy to live with day to day, and amusing when I do want to go fast. On a twisty b-road (or just giving it some between roundabouts) I just put it in manual mode and use the paddles, no need to take a hand off the wheel. D is very laid back and wants to change up unless you're nailing it, S wants excessive revs all the time IMO - it's a torquey motor so doesn't need to hunt around to keep revs up. But hey, you can just choose gears yourself, even in the "auto" modes, as the paddles are right there under your fingers.

Wouldn't be my first choice if I lived 15 miles from work with fun roads in between, but perfect for what I want out of a car. Wasn't even too bad on track as long as you don't push it hard enough for the (unswitchable) ESP to kick in.

Tried a couple of DSG's and wasn't fussed TBH. I much preferred the 8 speed ZF with flappy paddles that BMW are using (I tried one for the day last week). A really good auto for the lazy drives with cracking manual gear shifts when required.

Updated November 14, 2012 at 10:52 PM

Mine isn't DSG but I do have flappy paddles and I love it to bits. It's lazy when I want it to be and fun when I want fun. I know it's not as fast as a DSG box but let's be real here we are on the public roads most of the time so measuring tenths of seconds isn't really an interest to me.

As stated in the thread it's the best of both worlds and you can never get done by a diesal and it's torque because you can just plant the peddle and hey presto it's dropped 3 gears! So who needs big torque when you drive an auto.
IMO.

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For sure

Under warranty yes out of warranty too risky imo get a regular auto!

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I'd rather be wrong than dull

Well, this muddies the waters considerably. What would be perfect is a gearbox with a drive-by-wire clutch that could be de-activated, with the stick shift having two shift patterns it can switch between i.e. ‘automatic’ mode and the H-pattern. With paddles as well, it would mean every market segment is catered for in one switchable gearbox… ignoring the potential engineering issues of which I have no clue.

In any case, the elephant in the room for me is that apparently (and I stress apparently) the DSG boxes are incredibly expensive to fix if they break after warranty, and the 1.4-litre twin-charged engine is similarly dear to set right. Am I right to be a bit paranoid or was this only an issue with earlier cars, if at all?

Felix Diesel said...

Well, this muddies the waters considerably. What would be perfect is a gearbox with a drive-by-wire clutch that could be de-activated, with the stick shift having two shift patterns it can switch between i.e. ‘automatic’ mode and the H-pattern. With paddles as well, it would mean every market segment is catered for in one switchable gearbox… ignoring the potential engineering issues of which I have no clue.

In any case, the elephant in the room for me is that apparently (and I stress apparently) the DSG boxes are incredibly expensive to fix if they break after warranty, and the 1.4-litre twin-charged engine is similarly dear to set right. Am I right to be a bit paranoid or was this only an issue with earlier cars, if at all?

the other halfs polo GTi is a twin charged duel clutch o.O

not really that bothered by it going bang as we will extend the VW warranty on it when it runs out, My R32 duel clutch had 50k miles put on it over 5 years and i spanked the monkeys out of it from cold, box was faultless.

i would just makes sure it is under some form of warranty

the engine pulls like a train, and does not burn much oil once we had worked out that they need to have the bollocks spanked out of it to bed it in properly , the liners glaze if there not driven hard.

Updated November 15, 2012 at 4:46 AM

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Making pancake mix on your mums pancake tits

WIBBLE

Felix Diesel said...

Also, no, you cannot buy a manual VW Golf GTI in Australia anymore.

Think you're very mistaken there chief!

All the golf GTI's offered in OZ have had manual gearboxes offered. For reference that was the 2,4,5 & 6th generations. As you can see from the link above the 7th will have a manual option too.

Who told you the current 6th gen had no manual?

Updated November 15, 2012 at 5:23 AM

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I'd rather be wrong than dull

robinoz said...

Felix Diesel said...

Also, no, you cannot buy a manual VW Golf GTI in Australia anymore.

Think you're very mistaken there chief!

All the golf GTI's offered in OZ have had manual gearboxes offered. For reference that was the 2,4,5 & 6th generations. As you can see from the link above the 7th will have a manual option too.

Who told you the current 6th gen had no manual?

The dealership. Apparently the factory is not taking new orders on manuals. Which of course might be utter rubbish, and I certainly hope that is the case.

Felix Diesel said...

robinoz said...

Felix Diesel said...

Also, no, you cannot buy a manual VW Golf GTI in Australia anymore.

Think you're very mistaken there chief!

All the golf GTI's offered in OZ have had manual gearboxes offered. For reference that was the 2,4,5 & 6th generations. As you can see from the link above the 7th will have a manual option too.

Who told you the current 6th gen had no manual?

The dealership. Apparently the factory is not taking new orders on manuals. Which of course might be utter rubbish, and I certainly hope that is the case.

Which dealership may I ask?

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I'd rather be wrong than dull

I like the DSG a lot in the Scirocco. Love the popping noise on full throttle upshift. Perfect for everyday long commute. Of course, if you want full interaction, the paddles are never going to replace or better the stick and left pedal.

It really boils down to what you use you're car for. And as for reliability issues, just remember all cars have problems.

I ran the Fabia's sister car, the Polo GTI, for nearly 7 months and about 16,000 miles.

Thoughts here

I got used to the DSG and really quite liked it, but every time I drove a manual test car, no matter how shoddy its gearchange (I'm looking at you, Chrysler Delta), I realised I missed changing gear myself.

Out of your selection of test drives, the Clio 200 gets my vote. Lived with one for 12 months and 25,000 miles and 28mpg aside, found it painless to live with. Is the Veloster Turbo available your way yet? That's a very decent car, and much cooler than standard.

I think it depends on the driving situation - I was converted to the joys of automatics after test driving a Merc with one.

If you do alot of busy town/urban driving, the benefits are obvious for an auto - it just makes your life so much easier, and it's what I'd be looking at for my next city car. Point, squeeze, go.

I would say that the complexity and potential repair/replacement costs would put me off, but after the last couple of days I've relised that manual boxes can also suffer the same downsides 8):lol:

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ClubLupo
Technomotive - Games, Cars, Stuff

I read recently that the guy who owns Ginetta thinks that taking the clutch pedal out of a car is like chopping the drivers balls off. How regrettable would that be?

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PaulJ

I really really like the paddle shift in the GTR and every time I drive the Impreza I wish that had it too.

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Impreza WRX STi Spec-C V-Limited Toshi Arai Edition/ GTR/ Panda 100HP Pandamonium/ 316d

Ever since I drove an early MkV Golf 2.0 TDI DSG, I've been hooked. Is DSG Evo? IMHO, yes. I get a 'thrill' from fast paddle shift, relentless acceleration and blips on down-shifts. And it's a God-send in traffic.

I've had an R32 DSG which I much preferred over the manual. There were lots of horror stories of the control units failing on both R32s and MkV GTIs but I never had any issues with mine, you just have to ensure that the 40k service interval is maintained. I'll admit that did make a few slightly un-nerving clonks at low speed when it was cold, and would hesitate engaging reverse but once you learned to drive with it rather than expecting to just do what you wanted, it was fine. The control units are adaptable too, so you have to give it a chance which means a test drive isn't always an accurate representation.

Mechanically they are very strong, with lots of GTI/S3 owners putting 300+ bhp through standard 'boxes with no issues, where as the same level of tune on manual cars was killing the clutches very quickly. Early units definitely has issues with the MCU (control unit) and these were often replaced under warranty. VW of America actually acknowledged the problem, in Europe they choose to ignore it and dealt with it on a case by case basis. Modern 'boxes have been vastly improved with a much, much lower failure rate. On a used MkV GTI DSG I'd be a lot more worried about clogged in-let valves that the gearbox.

My daily driver is now a 1.6 TDI DSG and it's the best version of the DSG I've driven to date. This is the 7 speed, dry clutch version and is very smooth and a pleasure to drive. I believe its the same as is fitted to the Polo GTI and Fabia. I didn't option the paddles as I didn't see the point but it goes a long way in making up for the power deficit, particularly from a stand still. For commuting and crawling around the motorway network, it is effortless.

One point to note, they might be quicker, but dont seem to be more economical. I had an (absolutely awful) 1.6 TDi Bluemotion courtesy car and the economy was easily 5-6 mpg better than the DSG. I was constantly having to stir the 'box though.

We're currently looking a new Boxster and I genuinely can't decide over manual or a PDK.

The new R8 V10 S-tronic is an absolute weapon on the road, the acceleration is absolutely relentless (right up until someone hit us and wrote it off - they were prosecuted for record, it wasn't our fault!). The manual changes and kick-down are a massive improvement over the R-tronic too and it apparently leaves the manual for dead, even if that does have a nice gated shifter.

In short, I don't think I'll ever got back unless I buy an Exige and X-Bow. For everyday versatility and 80-90% of road driving, the DSG wins for me.

Keep in mind that you'll always run the risk of potentially expensive repairs with a 'modern' car out of warranty. Emission control systems, variable turbos and high pressure fuel systems are all just as likely to cost a lot to fix. Avoiding these along with DSG will very quickly start to limit your used-car options. It remains to be seen how well current technology loaded cars will age.

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