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FAO FLEWY OR ANYONE FEELING TECHY!
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For some crazy reason I decided to change the cambelt in my Celica (1993 GT 16V). Initially I thought all was well, car started fine, ran up the road, felt good etc etc. Then I got to some traffic lights and the engine dipped down to idle, except it didn't it just stalled.

I re started it but found I had no tickover, now this puzzled me. I got the car home and checked it over sure enough, it would rev but it would not idle.

I figured this was either a secondary problem or I had cocked up the timing.

I did a bit of googling found a procedure to deal with poor tick over (clean out part of the throttle) so I did that, re tried, still wouldn't tick over once warm, so re set the timing using a different method.

Re started the car and found that the different (proper method didn't work at all and the car ran like a bag of spanners. At this point I threw my tools around in disgust and called it quits!

Today I took the belt off again and found all my original markings and re set it as accurately as I could and fired it up. It ran fine to start with, ticked over (cold) and reved up okay but once warmed started to miss and needed throttle to pick the revs up. Any bright ideas?

My ex-wife had her Clio diesel cambelt changed before I met her. Done cheaply by somebody helpful, he apparently managed to put back one of the sprockets the wrong way round and while it ran fine for a week, the new cambelt wore and broke shortly afterwards.

Now this is entirely second hand info from somebody non-techy so I can only speculate as to what went wrong, but could it have been the tensioner, perhaps? No idea if it's even relevant to you.

Have you triple-checked that you haven't got a cam a tooth out? Usually if you have the slack on the tensioner side then as soon as you release the hydraulic tensioner, it pulls one cam a tooth out.

The running when cold but crapper when warm wouldn't be unexpected in that situation. Is the ignition timing up okay at 10DBTDC with the diagnostic terminals bridged?

The other thing I would look at if it's still not right is your TPS. If you've monkeyed about with this or even knocked it during the work, you may have knocked it off it's IDL switch. Very easy to set back up again with a multimeter.

Hope that helps, happy to lend a hand if you're not a million miles away (suspect you are).

Jon

Any chance you've left a breather hose off somewhere? On cars with mafs or afms a leak in the breather system ( even just leaving the oil cap off ) can make them run like a bag of crap.

Worth a look if you're confident it's still timed up properly.

--

cheers,

Harry

Too many old sheds.

Right well I will check the breathers first, firstly because its easy and also I have had them off as I cleaned the throttle body, so it could be a self inflicted issue. If I cant find fault there, then I will have to bite the bullet and re check the timing again....

Timing gun can be had cheap off eBay.

Timing gun only for ignition timing though, no good if you've got the belt wrong in the first place. I've changed timing belts on about 20 3S's.

Cheers,
Jon

Steve H said...

For some crazy reason I decided to change the cambelt in my Celica (1993 GT 16V). Initially I thought all was well, car started fine, ran up the road, felt good etc etc. Then I got to some traffic lights and the engine dipped down to idle, except it didn't it just stalled.

I re started it but found I had no tickover, now this puzzled me. I got the car home and checked it over sure enough, it would rev but it would not idle.

I figured this was either a secondary problem or I had cocked up the timing.

I did a bit of googling found a procedure to deal with poor tick over (clean out part of the throttle) so I did that, re tried, still wouldn't tick over once warm, so re set the timing using a different method.

Re started the car and found that the different (proper method didn't work at all and the car ran like a bag of spanners. At this point I threw my tools around in disgust and called it quits!

Today I took the belt off again and found all my original markings and re set it as accurately as I could and fired it up. It ran fine to start with, ticked over (cold) and reved up okay but once warmed started to miss and needed throttle to pick the revs up. Any bright ideas?

Steve, did you manage to resolve the idle issue?

I can post you the proper auto data for the Timing Belt install, so you can use the Toyota matchmarks and tensioning procedure to get it all bob on.

I peronally think it may be unrelated to the Belt change. I'd inspect the ISCV and its related ciruit and then check the PCV valve on the Rocker Cover breather pipe as these can prevent the crank case gases from venting to the Inlet Plenum.

Flewy

Thanks for your input Mr Flewy!

Anyway an update has been a rather long time coming...

Attempt no 4! I got hold of the Autodata sheet from a friend of mine and then assessed the timing marks, decided that I wasn't confident lining them up so I went for the long winded method. I removed the rocker cover and aligned the cams from above as they have alignment notches in them. put the belt back on then found the tensioner was borked... Finally got the correct hydraulic tensioner (Toyota only part) and got everything re built.

It now runs, ticks over and revs but isnt quite right (strongly suspect the throttle body, sensor etc and it has also developed an external headgasket oil leak, deep f@cking joy!

So it looks like I'am going to be running it until I find another cheap runabout, then I will take it off the road, stick a headgasket on it and go from there!

Rather bored with it now, cant think why?!

Well, after I bought the car from Steve and saved up teh funds, I finally got round to hoiking the engine and box out, so I can replace the headgasket and the clutch at the same time.

Got to the bottom of the running problems though which were -

Cam Timing was out by 1 1/5 teeth on Inlet Cam

Head gasket had let go on all the main oil gallery holes, had just started to bleed coolant into the oil.

Knock sensor had fallen apart, just the base of the sensor was still in place, rest was in its plug dangling:lol:

Couple of Vacuum Switching Valve pipes had popped of, causing small Inlet air leaks.

Other than those items it was all tickety boo. Needs stem seals, re shimming of the valves, etc but for a 160k bottom end I was surprised to see the wear on the bores is virtually non-existant8)

8) good to hear it's getting some TLC.

How's your other Toyota?

Currently filthy, being spanked hard at every opportunity8)

Need rack spacers and new track rods to up the amount of steering lock available, so I can catch bigger slides a bit easier.

Going to refresh the engine on the AE86 when the Celica is on the road:D

Luckily I had a tiny bit of inheritance come my way.:D

My parents felt quite strongly the money would be well spent replacing our boiler, amusingly my wife felt the money would be better spent on the cars8):lol:

Flewy said...

Currently filthy, being spanked hard at every opportunity8)

Need rack spacers and new track rods to up the amount of steering lock available, so I can catch bigger slides a bit easier.

Going to refresh the engine on the AE86 when the Celica is on the road:D

Luckily I had a tiny bit of inheritance come my way.:D

My parents felt quite strongly the money would be well spent replacing our boiler, amusingly my wife felt the money would be better spent on the cars8):lol:

8)
So what's the plan for the engine then?

Flewy said...

Currently filthy, being spanked hard at every opportunity8)

Need rack spacers and new track rods to up the amount of steering lock available, so I can catch bigger slides a bit easier.

Going to refresh the engine on the AE86 when the Celica is on the road:D

Luckily I had a tiny bit of inheritance come my way.:D

My parents felt quite strongly the money would be well spent replacing our boiler, amusingly my wife felt the money would be better spent on the cars8):lol:

Sounds about rite :) we need some drifting videos

--

New Skool Turbo Power

YouTube Channel

WD for saving another shonky old Toyota 8)

The Plan with the Ae86 is to have the bottom end fully balanced, new mains, big ends, new rings, bores honed, stud the block with ARP head studs. New oil pump too.

Rebuild and overhaul the head, valve seats re-cut, valves re-seated, skim it, re-shim the cam followers, possibly fit larger capacity injectors and longer duration cams (painfully expensive, need to engage blag mode!). HKS head gasket.

Refurb the Inlet manifold and intake TVIS butterflies, same for throttle body. Higher capacity fuel pump to be fitted.

Make a whole new exhaust from the manifold back using the current back box, may go under axle at the back, not decided yet.

If I can stretch to the cams and Injectors then I'll be expecting 160 ish if I'm lucky as I discovered it has a re-mapped ecu recently. When my mate Emmerson tweaked it a bit on the dyno before christmas it made 145bhp at the flywheel, so 160 is within striking distance.


Updated February 17, 2013 at 8:48 PM

that is an absolute fuckload of work for 15bhp.

This is why I worship the Good Lord Turbo.

--

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andybond said...

that is an absolute fuckload of work for 15bhp.

This is why I worship the Good Lord Turbo.

Not really, it's only the cams and injectors that are there for the power, the rest is a rebuild.

--

What's the difference between a BMW and a hedgehog?

andybond said...

that is an absolute fuckload of work for 15bhp.

This is why I worship the Good Lord Turbo.

True, but I am rather good at fuckloads of work.

NotoriousREV said...

andybond said...

that is an absolute fuckload of work for 15bhp.

This is why I worship the Good Lord Turbo.

Not really, it's only the cams and injectors that are there for the power, the rest is a rebuild.

And what Dave said:D

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