Forums > Any other business > Brexit - The movie

BREXIT - THE MOVIE

Broccers_ said...

Jobbo said...

Broccers_ said...

Jobbo said...

Oh, and if you don't start a negotiation by saying what you want ('No, not telling you :P') then you're really going to struggle to negotiate your way to that outcome.

Actually this in untrue. YOu overstate what you want and then reach a compromise (what you really wanted but never divulged)

Fine if you're buying a used car. Is a trade deal like buying a used car? I don't think so.

How mamy brexits have there been? Looking at the response/demands from the EU so far my tactics are perfect. :P


I think the very fact that there haven't previously been any EU member state exits eloquently makes the point that negotiation won't be like a used car sale/purchase.

Anyway, the EU has set out its stall and we should do the same. Or at least each party should do the same, so we have something to choose from when we vote in the general election.

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Wow was I impressed

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

Orange Cola said...

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

And I'd like to see your crystal ball that tells us that staying in the the EU will mean remaining on the same terms and that they will be better for us than leaving.

Updated April 21, 2017 at 10:52 PM

Staying in the EU would certainly be on worse terms then we had before the referendum. The specific vetos and concessions we had negotiated are gone forever now.

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Wow was I impressed

Swervin_Mervin said...

Orange Cola said...

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

And I'd like to see your crystal ball that tells us that staying in the the EU will mean remaining on the same terms and that they will be better for us than leaving.

Try reading my post again. We've not changed any of our current arrangements with the EU and the process can be stopped at any point until we finalise.

Nowhere does the documentation on leaving say that as soon as a vote has happened or article 50 is used a given set of arrangements suddenly change. It's a straightforward process that doesn't actually change anything until completion and it can be stopped at any point without legal intervention from the courts etc. The people who are saying we're on a one way street to complete separation are making that part up.

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Updated April 21, 2017 at 11:56 PM

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PDK frees up your left hand so you can scratch your vagina.

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

--

"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Si_ said...

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

Unfortunately it pays to be a bit more specific - the person that said they'd be fine with this was the head of the parliament and this would be a vote of the council (perhaps later ratified by the parliament but not necessarily).

As a result his opinion is largely irrelevant. The chances of not one of the 27 states vetoing in the council is pretty slim.

Plus realistically the only people running in the election on a ticket to reverse brexit are the lib dems. And they aren't going to win power so the likelihood of the request ever being made is again, zip.

Updated April 22, 2017 at 8:17 AM

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PDK frees up your left hand so you can scratch your vagina.

GG said...

Si_ said...

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

Unfortunately it pays to be a bit more specific - the person that said they'd be fine with this was the head of the parliament and this would be a vote of the council (perhaps later ratified by the parliament but not necessarily).

As a result his opinion is largely irrelevant. The chances of not one of the 27 states vetoing in the council is pretty slim.

Plus realistically the only people running in the election on a ticket to reverse brexit are the lib dems. And they aren't going to win power so the likelihood of the request ever being made is again, zip.

It's still a stupid idea.

--

"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Dafuq?

So this is going well, isn't it? :lol:

--

I often drive for a road travel

This sums it up

How are tories so ignorant to the concept of Northern Ireland ? Its part of the UK . There were talks that took years to broker peace in the region after 30 years of violence from paramilitary organisations on both sides.

action jack84 said...

This sums it up

How are tories so ignorant to the concept of Northern Ireland ? Its part of the UK . There were talks that took years to broker peace in the region after 30 years of violence from paramilitary organisations on both sides.

What's the solution then? ROI and NI need to get their heads together and come up with something that they're both happy to see.

Personally I'm not sure how this gets resolved to the satisfaction of ROI, NI and EU.

zedleg said...

So this is going well, isn't it? :lol:

Incredibly complex process that no one's ever gone through before. Not exactly going to be a walk in the park was it?

Well, no, but the end result will more than justify the painful journey. No - hang on - wait - no, it won't. AT ALL.

Can't we just let this die quietly? The Stupids who voted for it probably can't even remember doing it, as I'm sure there's some new reality TV show they're all excited about by now, and of course there's always the Daily Mail for them to get all cross and triggered over.

Blame it on the blacks or refugees or something - they'll like that - and get on with life.

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It feels like that. Like a donkey. On a skateboard.

Swervin_Mervin said...

action jack84 said...

This sums it up

How are tories so ignorant to the concept of Northern Ireland ? Its part of the UK . There were talks that took years to broker peace in the region after 30 years of violence from paramilitary organisations on both sides.

What's the solution then? ROI and NI need to get their heads together and come up with something that they're both happy to see.

Personally I'm not sure how this gets resolved to the satisfaction of ROI, NI and EU.

The ROI dont need to do a fvcking thing!!!! This is not of their making.

The deal was pretty much done to the satisfaction of the ROI , UK & EU leaders satisfaction before the spanner was put in the works by the DUP .
May I add that the DUP collapsed the northern assembly in relation to the cash for ash scandle. Half of the supposed 1 billion pounds the tories gave them is going towards paying for heating some massive commercial buildings

JL said...

Well, no, but the end result will more than justify the painful journey. No - hang on - wait - no, it won't. AT ALL.

Can't we just let this die quietly? The Stupids who voted for it probably can't even remember doing it, as I'm sure there's some new reality TV show they're all excited about by now, and of course there's always the Daily Mail for them to get all cross and triggered over.

Blame it on the blacks or refugees or something - they'll like that - and get on with life.

I'm in! Where can I vote for you and your revolutionary policies?

This is making me think of The Thick of It... I'm absolutely positive some adviser somewhere has raised this as being something the government should consider doing.

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Cheers,

Mike.

Swervin_Mervin said...

zedleg said...

So this is going well, isn't it? :lol:

Incredibly complex process that no one's ever gone through before. Not exactly going to be a walk in the park was it?

TBH I just felt like drawing attention to some of our homegrown political incompetence, Trump has been hogging the limelight recently.

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I often drive for a road travel

zedleg said...

Swervin_Mervin said...

zedleg said...

So this is going well, isn't it? :lol:

Incredibly complex process that no one's ever gone through before. Not exactly going to be a walk in the park was it?

TBH I just felt like drawing attention to some of our homegrown political incompetence, Trump has been hogging the limelight recently.

This

One guy on sky news referred to the Northern Irish Taoiseach....
Ah no Northern Ireland is part of the UK . Its written on your passport dipsh!t

We need an adult to step in and quietly shut the whole thing down now. We've given the Brexit bunch their shot, they've fvcked it up, let it die and we shall never speak of this again.

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Discoc*nts

1st and 3rd places FECPOTY Shed of the Year 2016

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