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BREXIT - THE MOVIE
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Broccers_ said...

Jobbo said...

Broccers_ said...

Jobbo said...

Oh, and if you don't start a negotiation by saying what you want ('No, not telling you :P') then you're really going to struggle to negotiate your way to that outcome.

Actually this in untrue. YOu overstate what you want and then reach a compromise (what you really wanted but never divulged)

Fine if you're buying a used car. Is a trade deal like buying a used car? I don't think so.

How mamy brexits have there been? Looking at the response/demands from the EU so far my tactics are perfect. :P


I think the very fact that there haven't previously been any EU member state exits eloquently makes the point that negotiation won't be like a used car sale/purchase.

Anyway, the EU has set out its stall and we should do the same. Or at least each party should do the same, so we have something to choose from when we vote in the general election.

--

Wow was I impressed

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

Orange Cola said...

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

And I'd like to see your crystal ball that tells us that staying in the the EU will mean remaining on the same terms and that they will be better for us than leaving.

Updated April 21, 2017 at 10:52 PM

Staying in the EU would certainly be on worse terms then we had before the referendum. The specific vetos and concessions we had negotiated are gone forever now.

--

Wow was I impressed

Swervin_Mervin said...

Orange Cola said...

We don't actually have to leave the EU. Even though we've "triggered" article 50 we could go through all the negotiating for the next two years and choose to either go ahead with those new agreements or stay as we are today.

It would make sense to have a referendum in two years time when the negotiations are complete; leave the EU on the given terms or remain in the EU on the existing terms.

If anyone wants to trot out the "leave means leave, we've already had the vote" line in response to this post then I'd like to see your crystal ball that told you leaving the EU really is the best thing to do long before all the negotiations have happened and long before we really, actually, leave.

And I'd like to see your crystal ball that tells us that staying in the the EU will mean remaining on the same terms and that they will be better for us than leaving.

Try reading my post again. We've not changed any of our current arrangements with the EU and the process can be stopped at any point until we finalise.

Nowhere does the documentation on leaving say that as soon as a vote has happened or article 50 is used a given set of arrangements suddenly change. It's a straightforward process that doesn't actually change anything until completion and it can be stopped at any point without legal intervention from the courts etc. The people who are saying we're on a one way street to complete separation are making that part up.

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Updated April 21, 2017 at 11:56 PM

--

PDK frees up your left hand so you can scratch your vagina.

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

--

"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Si_ said...

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

Unfortunately it pays to be a bit more specific - the person that said they'd be fine with this was the head of the parliament and this would be a vote of the council (perhaps later ratified by the parliament but not necessarily).

As a result his opinion is largely irrelevant. The chances of not one of the 27 states vetoing in the council is pretty slim.

Plus realistically the only people running in the election on a ticket to reverse brexit are the lib dems. And they aren't going to win power so the likelihood of the request ever being made is again, zip.

Updated April 22, 2017 at 8:17 AM

--

PDK frees up your left hand so you can scratch your vagina.

GG said...

Si_ said...

GG said...

Nope, sorry - none of that is supported by the legal analysis of article 50 - either from within the UK or in EU jurisprudence / opinion.

To rescind article 50 a government would need to decide (and arguably be elected with a mandate) to go to Brussels to request withdrawal of the notice and then all 27 other member states would need to agree to cancellation and resumption of membership.

In other words - it isn't going to happen. The "let's have a parliamentary vote once the deal is clear" argument is pure delusional fantasy.

Although the EU has said they'd be fine with this.

Unfortunately it pays to be a bit more specific - the person that said they'd be fine with this was the head of the parliament and this would be a vote of the council (perhaps later ratified by the parliament but not necessarily).

As a result his opinion is largely irrelevant. The chances of not one of the 27 states vetoing in the council is pretty slim.

Plus realistically the only people running in the election on a ticket to reverse brexit are the lib dems. And they aren't going to win power so the likelihood of the request ever being made is again, zip.

It's still a stupid idea.

--

"It's like he's immortal but sh1t" - @NotoriousRev
"You look like a Jelly Baby from down the back of the sofa"

Dafuq?

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